— First of all, could you tell us how you came to ask Tane-san to design the installation for this project?

Yoshiyuki Miyamae (hereafter, Miyamae): We felt that there was no one more suitable than Tane-san to “translate” this project into a spatial experience. It would of course have been possible to put together an exhibition by just presenting “Light and shadow inside me”, the series by Kangawa-san of Eugene Studio, the A-POC ABLE ISSEY MIYAKE (hereafter, A-POC ABLE) garments inspired by it, and the accompanying captions. But we had been deeply drawn to Kangawa-san's way of perceiving the world long before this project: the way his ideas existed before they took form, his stance toward the world, and the very process of making. Therefore this time as A-POC ABLE, we placed particular importance on carefully revealing that very process.

Furthermore Paris, the city chosen as the site of the exhibition, has a unique sense of place that resonates with Kangawa-san’s work. It is a city where past, present, and future intersect, and where art and photography boost a long history.Kangawa-san’s creations possess an ambiguity that resists being defined strictly as photography or painting, giving each viewer room for their own interpretation. We wanted to explore how his work and A-POC ABLE’s approach to clothes making would resonate within the context of Paris. When planning the exhibition space, we felt that Tane-san, who approaches his work like an archaeologist and is Paris-based, was the most fitting person to undertake the task. This is why we invited him to collaborate on this project.

Tsuyoshi Tane (hereafter, Tane): To tell the truth, when I first visited the Issey Miyake studio and saw the group of nearly finished pieces being laid out, I found myself thinking, “How on earth should this be assembled?” “Light and shadow inside me” began with the fundamental question, “What is light?” In an age where digitalization is advancing incessantly, Kangawa-san’s work has deliberately dismantled established photographic techniques in order to reconstruct the phenomena of light and shadow through more manual methods. a. Meanwhile, A-POC ABLE has returned to the origin of clothing, “a piece of cloth”, and expressed gradations of light and shadow solely through the woven structures and density of threads. Both sides traced technology back to its very roots to give way to the realm of art. The expressions were highly conceptual and strikingly aligned in their direction. Precisely because of that, the challenge was how to translate the resonance between the two into an experience within the exhibition. Given the degree to which the works were intuitively driven, I anticipated that this would be a particularly demanding exhibition to put together.

Miyamae: A good exhibition is one that moves both the mind and the heart. I believe it’s that delicate balance that makes it compelling. In that sense, there were many aspects of this project we entrusted to Tane-san. In the entrance area of the exhibition space he came up with, he created a large number of touch-points for visitors who might not know about Kangawa-san or A-POC ABLE: places where they could understand “who we are and what we do.” Because this is an exhibition in which grasping the context is essential, I felt that the structure, shaped from Tane-san’s perspective, truly demonstrated the value of his involvement. Had we presented everything on our own, I think the nuance of the exhibition would have turned out quite differently.

Tane: As Miyamae-san mentioned earlier, the pieces in this exhibition all possess an “ambiguity that resists being defined strictly as photography or painting”, and their essence is difficult to grasp intuitively. I also sensed that without knowledge of textiles or of the camera obscura, it would be hard for viewers to understand the underlying truth of the works. It’s not just that they are highly sophisticated and difficult to understand, these works dismantle phenomena that we tend to assume are “self-evident.” They then attempt to reconsider “the perception of things,” in other words, how we look back at the world. They materialize the immaterial through a sequence of processes, and trace perception back to epistemology in order to grasp the world conceptually. I felt that my role was to translate this mode of thinking into spatial form.

As part of this effort, I felt it would be more meaningful to reveal the processes behind the work rather than simply explaining the exhibits to the viewers. “Materializing” experiments, such as projecting light to burn shadows onto photographic paper, and testing durability for long-term preservation, were aspects that Kangawa-san and Eugene Studio had not previously shared with the public. The same applies to the A-POC ABLE garments. Rather than relying on conventional dyeing or printing techniques, they developed rich gradations composed solely from combinations of black and white threads. I explored how we might communicate the extensive time of trial and error that led to this outcome: how to amplify it, increase its resolution, and make it visible. That said, there are still areas I myself have yet to fully grasp*, and with only a short time left before the exhibition opens, there still seems to be elements that need further refinement.
*This interview was conducted in September 2025.

The future is contained within the past

— In Episode 11 of the interview, Kangawa-san remarked that through the collaboration with Tane-san, he discovered the value of tools he hadn’t recognized before, and it became an opportunity to review his work. I feel this is a statement that reflects the effectiveness of the “archaeological approach” that Tane-san employs. Miyamae-san, how do you perceive the impact of this approach?

Miyamae: If we trace the history of architecture, we can assume that there was a period from the 19th to the 20th century when architects pursued new materials, techniques, and unprecedented designs. But what then, do we, who live in the 21st century, create as “new architecture?” This may be a personal view but I feel a similar situation exists in Issey Miyake’s approach to clothes making. In a time when visual expression has been exhausted and circulates widely through society, we have entered an era in which we must reconsider not only what is visible but also what is invisible. In this context, Tane-san explores the role and significance of architecture, as well as the temporal and spatial elements of land, and derives visions of the future through extensive research. I see this approach as being a “new-era architect.”

Tane: You’re making me blush (laughs), thank you. As Miyamae-san remarked, the 21st century we live in is a time in which everything is consumed at an extraordinary speed. And with it comes an extensive sense of loss, emptiness, and the disappearance of past creations. In the midst of this, what can architecture do? I believe its role is not merely to create functional structures, but to delve into the unique memories a place holds; why the first settlers took root there, how they lived, how they built their lives, and how that continuity can be carried forward into the future.

The reason we use the word “archaeology” and adopt its approach is that it allows us to consider highlighting aspects that cannot be grasped by simply looking at the present. When archaeologists dig through layers of earth, artifacts from unknown eras or forgotten facts can suddenly emerge. These discoveries can become starting points for the future or even rewrite history itself. In this way, the material world and the human world connect, and beyond research and contemplation, something arises that links us to the memory of the future. We believe there is great potential in this.

Miyamae: Now we have an even stronger craving to learn about what we couldn’t see or didn’t know before. That inquisitiveness seems to be a driving force for A-POC ABLE as well. There are things that remain unseen if you focus only on clothes making, but by slightly shifting your perspective and exploring the surrounding elements connected to the garments, you sometimes encounter entirely new and unknown possibilities. We are fascinated by this kind of archaeological approach and believe that it holds great potential for the future.

Tane: The truth is, I don’t think anyone can just generate ideas at will. First, there has to be an impulse, a desire to create something. Beyond that, even if you don’t yet see the final form, you just start moving your hands and experimenting. It is through that motion that things begin to reveal themselves. During our own research, there are times when we can’t even explain what we are making. Often only after completing a round of work, we can finally assign meaning and understand, “This is what we were doing.”

Miyamae: I think of it as an accumulation, meaning digesting information properly as knowledge and combining and layering it, and through that, implicit knowledge that is difficult to put into words becomes tangible. During our team research, we rarely move in a straight line toward a goal. Sometimes it feels like struggling through a swamp, not knowing where we may end up. But even if it appears at first glance that we’ve encountered a dead end, when we look back, we often realize that we were simply continuing to search for the “mechanisms” that allow us to create more freely.

Tane: I can relate to that. When contemplating the question of where the future is born, I’ve been constantly wondering about how to create a framework that expands imagination without taking away human creativity.

The product of “accumulated time”

— As Tetsurō Watsuji discussed in the publication “Fūdo (Climate and Culture)”, by examining both the influence that land exerts on people and the products it generates, one can approach a fuller understanding of a place. In doing so, Tane-san engages not only with architecture but also with history, materials, culture, anthropology, and so on. Why is this possible?

Tane: In the end, I think everything comes down to the question of how we choose to live. Throughout history, mankind has created all sorts of things, only to destroy them again. And lately, even the method of destruction seems to be losing its sense of dignity. In such a world, it’s only natural that the things we pour our energy into will eventually unfortunately meet the same fate.
So how can we postpone that path towards downfall, even just a little, and keep things “alive” for as long as possible? In recent years, the architecture I choose to look at for reference has become almost exclusively works from before the 20th century. Beneath this is a fundamental sense of discomfort with modernization. There are townscapes that remain intact and meaningful even after being exposed to more than a hundred years of time: places with lasting vitality and the techniques that sustain them. When you gather these together and look at them from above, it feels as though they are all connected by something profound, like a water vein deep underground.

Miyamae: Even before establishing the ISSEY MIYAKE brand, I think Miyake had already perceived the “essence” of things. When you stand in the world of clothing design, the ultimate goal is creating products that shine in that particular era and precise moment. But the fascination of clothes making doesn’t stop there. Another essential aspect lies in connecting with society through design. It is only through the brand, A-POC ABLE, that we have gradually been able to touch this realm. I owe that to Miyake, and I am still constantly amazed at just how far ahead he could see.

Tane: Yes. It makes me once again appreciate the value of sustaining a single brand, or any endeavor, over a long period.

Miyamae: Speaking of “the value of sustaining over time,” I feel that your work, Tane-san, always carries a profound respect for time. When I visited your atelier, I observed a process similar to 100 rounds of baseball practice, piling up dozens of mock-ups. I also witnessed your approach of traveling the world and absorbing each place with all five senses. All of this reflects an act of carefully engaging with things over time, and it left a lasting impression on me.

On the other hand, we often rush through “research” in a short period of time and end up thinking we’ve understood something when we really haven’t. Working with Tane-san made me acutely aware of how much could slip through the cracks, things we could have fully absorbed, but didn’t. I have long wanted to shift from a short-term, intensive design process to a new cycle that allows time for careful verification. Yet the structural constraints of the industry have often made it difficult to implement such a change immediately. This time, however, through our collaboration with Tane-san, I feel that our own sense of “time” is slowly beginning to change. If we do not cultivate this awareness, everything simply overflows and passes us by. It is precisely this sense of urgency that made the project such a profound learning experience.

Tane: I feel humbled. Lately, I’ve been feeling that the Japanese word “dochaku”, rooted in the land, is such a brilliant term. It carries an image as if one is literally “wearing the soil”. I believe architecture is precisely the practice of looking closely at a place and considering how to honor the land, and how a building can harmonize naturally with it. At the same time, I feel that it is equally important to consider the perspective of the land itself, not just how the architecture “wears” the land but how it is worn by the land, and how it is received. This, I think, will become a crucial criterion for connecting architecture and place in the future. Without this, it would be difficult for architecture to survive over long spans of time. Like a tree that gradually spreads its roots deep, thickens its trunk, and grows its branches and leaves over many years, we aim to base our work on a form of prosperity rooted in time, while excavating the memory of the future. It is from this stance that I hope to engage with the world.